----

(Unknown Date)

----

["Akili"] ponders. "["Calin"], you might know this one, since ["Paw"] seems to still be occupied. Any idea how many distinct types of magic there are in [:Annor:his world]? Not seperate classes so much as major seperations, such as [ArcaneMagic:arcane] and [:DivineMagic:divine]."

["Calin"] says, "I suspect it's a subject for philisophical debate."

["Calin"] says, "I am inclined to say that at a certain level, all forms of power are the same. On the other end of it, every spellcaster class has differences, and sometimes there are differences even within a class."

["Calin"] says, "For example, an ["Elementalist"] has [:FireElement:fire magic], and [:EarthElement:earth magic], etc."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Well, see, this came up because of something I asked ["Paw"] about. It occured to me that [:ChaosMagic:chaos magic], through long association, tends to start making other magical effects malfunction, and because of that, a [:ChaosMage:chaos mage] might learn to more specifically figure out how to disrupt existing magic. But ["Paw"] stated that it would only affect [:ArcaneMagic:arcane magic]."

says ["Cal"], "[:DivineMagic:Divine magic] comes through a 'conduit' that might take offence at his magic being disrupted."

["Calin"] says, "Well, we have noticed rather a lot of parallels between [:NewWizard:wizardry] and [:ChaosMage:chaos magic]."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Right, we had a very interesting discussion about that once."

["Calin"] says, "Enough to say that [:NewWizard:wizards] and [:ChaosMage:chaos mages] draw from the same power source(s?) and do the same kinds of effects."

The hushed stillness falls across the shrubs.

["Calin"] says, "At that level of categorization, I would say that there is [:ArcaneMagic:arcane magic] ([:NewWizard:wizards], [:ChaosMage:chaos mages]... maybe [wiki:WikiPedia:Sorcerer_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 dnd sorcery]); [:ElementalMagic:elemental magic] ([:Elementalist:elementalists] and maybe [:Adept:adepts]), [:DivineMagic:divine magic ]([wiki:WikiPedia:Cleric_%28character_class%29 clerics] and [wiki:WikiPedia:Paladin_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 paladins])..."

["Calin"] ponders.

["Calin"] says, "I think [:Witchcraft:warlockery] for lack of a better name ([:Witch:witches] and [:Warlock:warlocks])."

["Akili"] asks, "How about [:Faradhim:faradhims]?"

["Calin"] says, "Oh yeah."

["Calin"] says, "I might lump those with [:Elementalist:elementalist] and [:Adept:adept], but I'm not sure just now."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "That's kind of what I was thinking, really."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Not because of what they do, but because of some of the limitations on their power. Not working over water, that sort of thing."

["Calin"] says, "I was thinking of what they do."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Yeah.... that too, really."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Burning, weather control, creating elements...."

["Calin"] says, "[:ElementalMagic:Elemental magic] effects the physical world. Makes lumps of solidness, moves air, etc."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Right."

["Calin"] says, "[:ArcaneMagic:Arcane magic] does complex and unpredictable things, like flat-out breaking any known laws of physics or whatever."

["Akili"] blinks.

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "There's another tendency with [:ElementalMagic:elemental magic]: it's not continual."

["Calin"] says, "And [:DivineMagic:divine magic]'s effects are created by beings with different sets of physical laws interfering with our world."

["Calin"] says, "[:ElementalMagic:Elemental magic] is continual... and its effects are lasting. So I'm not sure what you're getting at."

says ["Cal"], "magic in general coming from interface with planes where the laws of physics are different..."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "[:Elementalist:Elementalists] and [:Faradhim:faradhims] both create effects, but once they're done creating the effect, it has ended. [:ArcaneMagic:Arcane] and [:DivineMagic:Divine magic] can be imbued into items."

["Calin"] says, "That does not hold true for [:Adept:adepts] though."

["Paw"] purrs, "[:NewWizard:Wizards]/[:ChaosMage:Chaos Magic]/[wiki:WikiPedia:Sorcerer_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 Sorcery] is all [:ArcaneMagic:arcane]. ["Witchcraft"] is similar enough to [:ArcaneMagic:arcane] that I'd say it is [:ArcaneMagic:arcane]. ["Faradhim"]s and ["Adept"]s use a similar kind of magic. ["Elementalist"]s are somewhat unique."

["Calin"] says, "At least, not for [:AmuletAdept:amulet] or [:GolemAdept:golem adepts]."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Right, which is why I suddenly wasn't sure if they belonged in that category."

"And [:DivineMagic:divine magic]? Anything to say on that one?" asks ["Calin"].

["Paw"] purrs, "[:BloodMage:Blood Mage] is related to ["Witchcraft"], so COULD be classified as ["ArcaneMagic:arcane]. A very narrow section of [:ArcaneMagic:arcane]."

["Calin"] nods.

["Akili"] grins, suddenly remembering the [:StreetFighter:Street Fighter] class.

["Paw"] purrs, "[:DivineMagic:Divine magic]... is very seperate. [wiki:WikiPedia:Cleric_%28character_class%29 Clerics], [wiki:WikiPedia:Paladin_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 Paladins], ["Theurgist"]s."

["Paw"] purrs, "And ["Watcher"]s, come to think of it."

["Calin"] might lump in [:Demonologist:demonology], though as a subclass... like [:Witchcraft:witchcraft] is to [:ArcaneMagic:arcane].

["Paw"] purrs, "I almost wouldn't qualify [:DivineMagic:divine magic] as magic. It's like... asking favors."

["Calin"] nods.

["Paw"] purrs, "Yeah, [:Demonologist:Demonology], certainly."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Unless I'm mistaken, though, [:ArcaneMagic:arcane] and [:DivineMagic:divine magics] can interfere with each other."

["Paw"] purrs, "Right next to ["Theurgist"]s."

["Calin"] says, "But then... [:Elementalist:elementalism] isn't like magic; it only affects the physical world."

says ["Cal"], "magic, but coming from a being seperate from the caster."

["Paw"] purrs, "That is true, ["Akili"]."

["Paw"] purrs, "But only certain spells."

["Paw"] purrs, "Like 'Dispel Magic'."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "I doubt most magic comes *from* the caster, ["Cal"]."

["Calin"] says, "Well, due to the nature of [:ArcaneMagic:arcane magic], I'm inclined to say it can interfere with just about anything."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "That was the first to come to mind."

["Paw"] purrs, "However, Dispel Magic works on pretty much every kind of magic."

says ["Cal"], "with [:DivineMagic:divine], the outside source is more obvious than with some other forms."

["Akili"] nods to ["Calin"]. "Which is why I was intrigued by ["Paw"] stating that the [:ChaosMage:chaos] version - disrupt magic, as I termed it - would only affect ["ArcaneMagic:arcane magic]."

["Paw"] purrs, "I could dispel a ["Faradhim"]'s magic with it, though it's more like 'disrupt magic' at that point."

["Calin"] suspects dispel magic would have a hard time with [:DivineMagic:divine/demonic] effects.

["Calin"] says, "["Akili"], it's because you would need a DIFFERENT effect to disrupt other magics."

["Paw"] purrs, "Mostly because as I see it, the ability would pretty much just 'leak' [:ArcaneMagic:arcane magics] into existing [:ArcaneMagic:arcane magic]."

["Calin"] says, "[:ChaosMagic:Chaos] could... right."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Hm."

["Calin"] says, "[:ChaosMagic:Chaos] might be able to destroy the fine controls on [:NewWizard:wizardry] fairly easily."

["Calin"] says, "Like lightning hitting a circuit board."

["Akili"] knows dispel magic only works with active magic. A magical barrier around a creature could be dispelled, but a summoned creature could not be dispelled.

["Paw"] purrs, "If you tried to do it to say, an ["Elementalist"], you'd be better off using ["Weirdness"] or ["Chaos"]."

["Paw"] blinks.

["Paw"] purrs, "Huh. Dispel Magic doesn't jive well with ["Elementalist"]s."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Nope."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "As you said, they're somewhat unique."

["Calin"] says, "No, it deosn't. Probably wouldn't do anything to them."

["Paw"] purrs, "There are very few ["Elementalist"] effects that Dispel Magic would affect."

["Paw"] purrs, "An ["Elementalist"] 'charm' or 'sleep' probably could be dispelled."

["Paw"] purrs, "But that's... about it."

["Paw"] purrs, "Illusions, maybe."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Huh. So, then, only the [:SpiritElement:Spirit]-specific magics."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "And only certain ones of those."

["Paw"] purrs, "Illusion is all the elements, actually. To some form or another."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "True, although it's not an illusion without [:SpiritElement:Spirit].,"

["Paw"] purrs, "But yeah, particularly effective on [:SpiritElement:Spirit]."

The steady calm settles on the grass.

["Paw"] asks, "Really?"

["Paw"] looks up the ["Elementalist"]

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to recall."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Because anything else wouldn't be an illusion."

["Paw"] purrs, "[:SpiritElement:Spirit] brings animation to illusions."

["Akili"] asks, "So... what does it take to make a very basic illusion?"

["Calin"] nods. "The ["Elementalist"] could make a visual illusion using only [:FireElement:fire], right?"

says ["Cal"], "building up a physical representation of an image, even a superficial shell, would not be an illusion in the usual sense."

["Paw"] purrs, "[:AirElement:Air] brings visibility, [:EarthElement:Earth] brings texture and feel, [:FireElement:Fire] brings sound, [:WaterElement:Water] brings mobility."

["Calin"] says, "And can make texture with [:EarthElement:earth]."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "So just [:AirElement:air], then. Interesting."

["Calin"] says, "Well, an ["Elementalist"] is not a spellcaster in the traditional sense."

["Paw"] purrs, "Yeah, an ["Elementalist"] has to piece together an illusion."

["Akili"] ponders. "Can the activation of an ["Elementalist"]'s powers be detected with spellcraft?"

["Paw"] purrs, "Through backwards methods."

["Paw"] purrs, "Spellcraft, yes."

["Paw"] purrs, "Knowledge Arcana could tell you about ["Elementalist"] magics, even."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "I wonder, then, if dispel magic could counter an ["Elementalist"] effect as it's being empowered."

["Paw"] purrs, "Just as Spellcraft allows a NewWizard to know what spell a [wiki:WikiPedia:Cleric_%28character_class%29 Cleric] is casting."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "With the right timing."

["Paw"] purrs, "I don't think dispel magic is a 'counterspell"

["Paw"] purrs, "Not certain on that, though"

["Akili"] looks.

["Paw"] purrs, "As it is, though, Dispel Magic to me makes more sense as a [:DivineMagic:Divine magic] than an [:ArcaneMagic:Arcane] one."

["Calin"] either. "It's a sorcery, not an instant (to put it in [wiki:WikiPedia:Magic_the_gathering Magic the Gathering] terms)."

["Paw"] nods.

["Calin"] says, "Disenchant, not counter."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Let's see. You can end ongoing spells, temporarily suppress the magical abilities of of an item, or counter another caster's spell - although you can't counter spells with an Instanteous duration."

["Calin"] ponders that. "Yeah, I could see 'disrupt magic' being an [:ArcaneMagic:arcane] spell. It doesn't wipe the spell away, it destroys the controls. Lightning to the circuitry."

["Paw"] nods.

says ["Cal"], "the energy of the spell is still there, but the containment is broken."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Hold on. I think what I said is partially incorrect."

["Calin"] says, "And the effect would be as if the spell had been critically failed."

["Akili"] looks up counterspelling.

["Paw"] purrs, "I think [:ArcaneMagic:Arcane] counterspelling would function best as a disruption of the mind."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Ah. The *effect* of an instantaneous spell can't be countered, but the spell itself *can* be."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "For example, if someone was hit by a fireball, you can't dispel the flaming wounds, but you could attempt to counter the fireball itself."

["Paw"] asks, "But not through Dispel Magic. You have to counter the spell by casting the same spell or something?"

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Dispel magic works, but it takes a DC check."

["Akili"] reads.

["Paw"] ahs.

["Paw"] isn't sure how [:ArcaneMagic:Arcane Magic] can counter [:DivineMagic:Divine Magic].

- Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.

["Calin"] suspects that to a certain extent, [wiki:WikiPedia:Dungeons_and_dragons DnD] magic isn't compatible with our magic.

["Calin"] says, "It takes too broad a view of things."

["Paw"] nods.

["Calin"] grins at the idea of [:DivineMagic:divine magic] countering [:DivineMagic:divine magic]. "Two deities have an argument."

says ["Cal"], "That could get messy, hopefully not where the casters are."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Yup, [wiki:WikiPedia:Cleric_%28character_class%29 clerics] can cast it too. According to the handbook, just about every magic-casting class can."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "[wiki:WikiPedia:Bard_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 Bards], [wiki:WikiPedia:Cleric_%28character_class%29 clerics], [wiki:WikiPedia:Druid_%28character_class%29 druids], [wiki:WikiPedia:Paladin_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 paladins], [wiki:WikiPedia:Sorcerer_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 sorcerers], and [wiki:WikiPedia:Wizard_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 wizards]."

["Calin"] reiterates about [wiki:WikiPedia:Dungeons_and_dragons DnD] spells.

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "But, as you said... yeah."

["Calin"] says, "I'm inclined to say that [wiki:WikiPedia:Dungeons_and_dragons DnD] spellcasters all use [wiki:WikiPedia:Dungeons_and_dragons DnD] magic, rather than [:ArcaneMagic:arcane], [:DivineMagic:divine], etc."

["Akili"] rumbles lightly, "Even it has limitations, though. [wiki:WikiPedia:Wizard_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29 DnD wizards] can't cast healing spells."

----

CategoryRants CategoryRolePlaying